You are hereRedstate, Dailykos and Summary Account Bans: Censorship Reveals Mirror of Dishonesty

Redstate, Dailykos and Summary Account Bans: Censorship Reveals Mirror of Dishonesty


By maynard - Posted on 30 March 2006

By now it has become common knowledge that Redstate site founder Ben Domenech, or Augustine under his pseudonym, is a plagiarist.

The son of Doug Domenech, White House liason to the Department of the Interior, he was hired in March by the Washington Post to run a new blog called Red America. He resigned in disgrace with only a few short posts published after only three days on the job. The discovery of numerous instances of plagiarism dating back from his student newspaper days at The Flat Hat, all the way through to the Post itself, included text from a P.J. O'Roark book and numerous movie and music reviews taken from sites such as Salon.com. According to editors at The Flat Hat, of 35 articles published 10 appear to contain "suspicious" similarities to other work. Further, work published in the the professoinal publication National Review shows signs of plagiarism. This behavior looks to have extended across his entire, if brief, career until his outing at the young age of 24.

Once news of a single instance of plagiarism leaked, liberal bloggers at Dailykos and Eschaston dug through his entire publishing history, much of it online. Domenech was clearly no friend of the liberal blogging community. Prior to being hired at the Washington Post, he had posted a comments calling Correta Scott King a communist during her funeral, he had conflated the judiciary with the Ku Klux Klan, and just before his public Mea Culpa of plagiary he had blatantly lied about that fact to protect himself at the expense of everyone else at Redstate. Still, fans of Domenech at Redstate continued to support him, one of whom posted a note stating he was proud to call [Domenech] his Redstate brother.

The amazing aspect of that story is not Domenech's foibles, but that fellow site editors at Redstate defended his behavior to the point of summary account deletion for any user who publicly opposed Ben's plagiarism. They 'blammed', ejected, and threatened long-standing members with expulsion for simply saying: plagiarism is bad. Even a self-proclaimed Texas professor backed down to save his account. One wonders what his academic colleagues and students might think should they discover his identity.

Various Dailykos Front Page posters had a few things to say about the situation. They weren't very nice, of course, one even calling Domenech an asshole, while another linked his behavior to general conservative cronyism, among other ad hominem attacks. For the Dailykos crowd, any conservative writer is open to severe public criticism, just as are liberal writers harshly criticized by conservatives on Redstate, simply for their political views. The corollary to this is that one's own are never to be criticized, even when in the wrong.

In defense of Ben, Thomas, a Redstate editor, wrote these astonishing words:

I repeat: Should the entire American Left fall over dead tomorrow, I would rejoice, and order pizza to celebrate. They are not my countrymen; they are animals who happen to walk upright and make noises that approximate speech. They are below human. I look forward to seeing each and every one in Hell.

What is one to think of an editor and writer of a prominent US conservative blog who makes a statement like that in defense of something so obviously wrong as plagiarism? Should it matter that Ben is a friend and colleague? In a society with consistent ethical standards: no.

Dailykos members enjoyed their schadenfreude while watching Domenech's career rightly crumble to ruins, steadfastly claiming that such ethical abuse of power could never happen there. Liberals are above that, because it's a core liberal value to show tolerance and respect to those with differing views. Yet when an internal dispute between front page poster Darksyde and Dailykos diarist bluebeliever, who Darksyde did not reference in his diary retort, erupted over the issue of general biographical information and credentials for Front Page posters, Dailykos editors also threatened arbitrary account termination.

Darksyde is the science Front Page poster and editor at Dailykos, a user who had been selected by site founder Markos Moulitsas Zúniga, for his usually factual and accurate diaries on science. However, bluebeliever had the temerity to ask Darksyde: 'what are your credentials?' which exploded into a site-wide flame war. In fact when asked for only general information such as his occupation, his undergraduate or postgraduate studies at University, or even just his personal hobbies, Darksyde responded with an utterly paranoid rant about how the United States government had 'smoked a CIA official' and 'appointed themselves the legal right to kidnap people off the streets with no warrant or due process and ship them to third world shitholes to be tortured to death.' Yet another amazingly unreasonable statement, this time coming from a prominent liberal blogger.

Threatening arbitrary account deletion for sincerely asking the basic question: 'credentials?' seems more than an excessive response to such a simple request. Yet it was not just Darksyde who acted alone, suggesting that such arbitrary bans are site policy, not the work of an over-eager editor. Long time Front Page poster Armando immediately joined in with verbal arrows to let everyone know that one must not be disrespectful to Dailykos, or any of its star posters, lest he go on a campaign to 'strike back' at those who might 'ruin the site' with their queries... about 'credentials.' To ask such a question is a 'smear to the community' and only meant 'to cause trouble.'

Thus two site editors demanded self-censorship under threat of an arbitrary account ban for anyone who might request basic standards of academic openness, on the dubious grounds that asking such general questions would invade the privacy rights of site authors. And for those who didn't heed his warning the outcome was swift and severe. One might ask, how does this benefit the Dailykos reading audience and contributors, or provide any semblance of protection against groupthink? Is this not the very definition of imposing groupthink?

The rule appears to be on both sides of the political spectrum, at Redstate and Dailykos alike, don't offend a site editor. Defending our special people, our site blogging stars, not consistent morals and ethics, is the standing policy. The outcome being that these site stars - those editors and Front Page posters - act to maintain their public fan base at the expense of the very partisan goals they and their participants aim to achieve through blogging. The only difference between these two sites are thus the opposing ideologies they promote, not the censoring means by which they operate.

These are the two most prominent Left and Right political blogs in the United States. What kind of ethical standard does this promote in the public sphere? In serious matters of policy and academic discourse vigilance against groupthink and star fandom is everlasting, just as is freedom from a censoring authority. We ignore this truth at our peril.

[NOTE:] A prior version of this story linked to and quoted a diary posted by Armando that was, in fact, tagged as snark. The author failed to notice this fact and apologizes for the error.


Copyright ©2006 J. Maynard Gelinas.


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I pulled the original due to what I considered excessive and unfair snark to both participants in this debate. I have rewritten the piece to be more factual and provide better context for both parties involved. I think it is much better for the rewrite.

After it got dumped in the Kuro5hin.org queue last night I expected no one would notice the work. I'm shocked and pleasantly surprised to have Drudge link to my article. Thank you!

It is back online in new form. Please feel free to read and post whatever comments you consider appropriate as long as it's not abusive.

The article is under a creative commons license and may be freely copied for noncommercial use with proper atribution.

Best,
J. Maynard Gelinas

Sorry, gotta say that you're way off base on this. The DK dustup was about user anonymity. The threat to ban was based on a simple rule of the website - if a user wants to remain anonymous, they have that right, and you can be banned for pressing that issue.

You conclude that the lesson to be learned is "don't offend a site editor". But that's a ... well ... stupid conclusion. Of *course* you shouldn't offend a site editor. But look at the bar for "offense" in these cases. In one case, implying that plagiarism is wrong is the offence. In the other, it's breaking the rules of the site by attempting to discover the identity of an anonymous user.

The question isn't whether offending a site editor will get you banned - that's true for all forums. The question is the nature of this offence, and how high the bar is set. Anonymous writing has been considered protected speech for a long time. I can agree with that policy.

But take a look at DK, and try to count how many times a user was banned for suggesting that a fellow leftwinger is wrong. They might get trounced in debate but certainly won't get banned, and might even get high ratings if they make their points intelligently. The difference between these two policies is that DK's is intended to *increase* the freedom of speech on the site, and RS's is to decrease it.

Of course, I wrote the article so I would. But if you look into the threads of Darsyde's diary you'll see that the request was for general information about his credentials, not his real name or other personal information. As for whether the comment represents "paranoia" on Darksyde's part, I'll let the quote stand for itself. If you don't see paranoia in those written words, we live on entirely different planets.

However, I would argue that it's perfectly reasonable on a site with the large readership and political pull like Dailykos to demand that all front page posters be treated like professional journalists. They should use their real names and be prepared to defend and back up their claims with factual evidence, just like a journalist would do at any print publication. I am dismayed by the number of times I've seen unsourced claims published on the Dailykos front page, or sourcing which only references the claims of another blogger and not officially published news.

That is not how to win an intellectual debate. For either side of the spectrum, Dailykos and Redstate alike.

JMO
--Maynard

Original poster here.

I didn't mean to imply that Darksyde was justified in not wanting to supply credentials, just that I disagree with the conclusion that DK and RS share anything other than cosmetic similarities wrt these two incidents. On DK, it may have started out about credentials, but by the time the rest of the site editors came in, it was more about anonymity, which I believe is a valid concern.

In addition, living by the rules Armando set out would not significantly disrupt the discourse, as the speech limits placed were on information tangental to the actual conversation. These rules were up for debate and in the end, no one gets banned.

In contrast, RS's policy eliminates vast swaths of discourse, and even chills conversation on the policy itself, something that would never be seen on DK. In the end, the left was justified in claiming that "we would never do such a thing", because they in fact never did.

I personally agree with the DK policy of anonymity. I also agree that the unsourced claims on the front page are a problem, and that bloggers - especially on a site as significant as DK - should be held to strict journalistic standards.

This is not the same as anonymity though. I'd say the reason we want their real name is to ensure that they have a reputation at stake - so they can't just claim what they want and disappear. However, we can consider their user account to be just such an identity. Front-page posters will not get any respect if a commenter can simply come in and say "You were wrong [link]here, [link]here, and [link]here. Why should I believe you?" The loss of trust of using a long-term anonymous account vs your own identity is negligable - especially if you've never actually published anything real-life which can provide examples of previous work.

A quick note on the paranoia though. This administration did in fact "smoke" a CIA agent - in the sense that they outed Valerie Plame in retaliation against her husband - a sense that all denizens of DK would have recognized immediately. They have been spying on advocacy groups. They have deported people to 3rd-world shitholes based on minimal evidence.

In short, DarkSyde was stating facts in his post. Maybe it's a bit arrogant to assume that the Bush administration would be anywhere near as interested in him as in Plame, but I can understand his reluctance to reveal himself.

on the mirroring of banning policies on both sites, as well as the negative effect this has on intellectual political discourse. I think threatening to ban people just for asking a question about his credentials twice, or defending the rationale behind the question, which Darksyde did do, as well as banning at least one (if not more) users for stating that he/she thought the policy inappropriate - which Armando seemingly did do - is both reprehensible and no different from the behavior at Redstate.

JMO.
Maynard

And certainly won't defend it.

But I still think there's a qualitative difference between banning people based on a (possibly flawed) site policy and on their opinions themselves.

At their hearts, DK and RS are political sites. They are most useful if they allow full political discourse. The DK incident was orders of magnitude below the RS incident in its effect on political discourse. I believe it's quite possible to have intelligent anonymous conversation as long as facts are sourced. So I do disagree that banning based on a non-political site policy is the same as banning based on political ideology.

Also, I understand that this is a long-standing policy of RS. I'm unaware of this type of thing happening regularly on DK. I wish I had stats to back that up other than a quick google search (banned users dailykos vs banned users redstate - there are far more relevant results for the latter). I don't disagree that the DK incident "mirrors" RS, just the implication that they're equally guilty.

Seriously. It doesn't take much to get your account nuked over at dkos. Over at kuro5hin, before my article bombed in the queue, one guy claims he got banned for simply posting "[...]at dKos for pointing out that Presidential nominee John Kerry publicly stated he wouldn't bring the troops home from Iraq." Poof. And another user gone. And, of course, that was a factually accurate statement. That was, in fact, John Kerry's position during his presidential campaign.

I believe lildebbie (the comment poster) too.

Like many forums, DK users will troll-rate someone who
a) Disagrees with them AND
b) Is impolite about it.

Take a look

I doubt it was the content of the comments that got lildebbie troll-rated, but the tone. DK isn't adequacy.org - or even k5 - and a modicum of civility is expected. You can be certain circletimessquare would be quickly banned too.

Admittedly, the same comments against this administration probably wouldn't be troll-rated, but certainly wouldn't receive 3's across the board. The same rule applies as anywhere else in life - if you're going to go against the "common wisdom" of whatever forum you're in, don't be an ass about it.

comment

Guy claims to have been banned at both Redstate and Dailykos for utterly innoculous and factual diaries and comments. Excellent example. I only wish he had posted links.

which is a haven for trolls. That doesn't mean lildebbie behaved in an inappropriate manner on Dkos. Though I don't have his original comment to say one way or the other. But I do have plenty of links to comments at dkos. And if Armando had behaved like he did on dkos just about anywhere else, including K5, he would have had his account terminated for abuse.

Here's the difference between attacking a low-ranking republican on RS and a low-ranking dem on DK:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/4/4/23039/34064/3#c3

I linked to some of the comment history in my last comment. It wasn't horrible, horrible troll stuff, but if the tone was indicative of how lildebbie comports him/herself on DK, I understand the troll ratings. Going against conventional wisdom + not being polite about it = troll rating.

Two things:

  1. "DarkSyde" is the science poster, and people were asking him what his science credentials were. They weren't asking him to prove them, just to state them. He could remain anonymous while saying "I'm a PhD student in physics" or something, but refused to do so. The likely reason is that he has none, but didn't want to admit that.
  2. His post was utterly paranoid. I could see wanting to remain anonymous for a number of reasons, but the reason he gave is pretty paranoid. The government is going to kidnap and murder people and their families because they post rants on a political blog?

I got the sense he wasn't claiming that it would happen to him - he was just stating facts to bolster his point that the government is pretty untrustworthy at the moment - and certainly not trustworthy enough to not - say - put him on a no-fly list.

Here's another question - what if he's an illegal alien? From the middle east? A cursory check on his real name by a gov't official may be all they need to find him and deport him. The fact that he *is* an anonymous poster means that we have very little to judge him by. Maybe he is justifiably concerned.

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